Show Notes

• 00:00 – Intro: This Week on the YMYW Podcast
• 00:54 – Claiming Social Security: Is Planning for a 40-Year Retirement a Waste of Time? (jeffreylevin9728, YouTube)
• 12:31 – How Do I Turn My IRA Into a Monthly Paycheck? (Kevin, Denver)
• 23:42 – I’m Retired Early Due to Illness and My Wife May be Laid Off. What About Health Insurance? (Tim & Jill, rural PA)
• 32:30 – Roth Conversions on a $4M IRA at 68: Picking up Nickels in Front of a Steamroller? (Rocky & Adrian, Tucson, AZ)
• 40:27 – Outro: Next Week on the YMYW Podcast
• 42:16 – The Derails: Frontier Crucible, The Punisher, Disclosure Day, etc.

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Withdrawal Strategy Guide – free download

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Transcription

(NOTE: Transcriptions are an approximation and may not be entirely correct)

Intro: This Week on the YMYW Podcast

Andi: 63 year old Kevin in Denver is pulling a hundred grand a year out of his portfolio. What’s the tax-smart way for him to structure these retirement withdrawals? Tim in Pennsylvania was forced into early retirement, and his wife Jill may be facing a layoff. They have over two and a half million saved, but what about health insurance? And Rocky and Adrian in Tucson have four million in pre-tax at ages 68 and 69. If they convert to Roth are they just picking up nickels in front of a steamroller? That’s all today on Your Money, Your Wealth® podcast number 600. But first, Jeffrey’s YouTube comment lit a fire when he called a recent episode of YMYW TV on Social Security claiming strategies cookie-cutter with zero real info. Let’s check out the return fire. Why not leave a comment on our YouTube channel yourself if you’ve got thoughts to share? I’m Executive Producer Andi Last, and here are the hosts of Your Money, Your Wealth®, Joe Anderson, CFP®, and Big Al Clopine, CPA.

Claiming Social Security: Is Planning for a 40-Year Retirement a Waste of Time? (jeffreylevin9728, YouTube)

Joe: So we got a YouTube comment?

Al: Yeah, YouTube comment.

Andi: Yeah, apparently you fired somebody up last week.

Joe: We have many videos on YouTube. Is there a specific one?

Andi: Yeah. This was specifically from the most recent episode of the YMYW TV show- TV show … which was all about Social Security.

Joe: “Tired of these videos. So cookie cutter with zero real info.”

Al: Okay.

Joe: That’s the goal.

Al: That’s-

Joe: Definitely. I’m the one that’s talking about it. timing for Social Security is based on three things, assuming you are not working. First, need. If you need the money to put food on the table, take it as early as necessary.

Al: I agree.

Joe: I believe we said that.

Al: I think so.

Joe: Number two is longevity.

Al: Yep.

Joe: We never, ever talk about- … longevity.

Al: Talk about that every single time. We talk about-

Joe: Well, I’m so bored of talking about- … need and longevity. We probably just skipped it.

Al: Maybe.

Joe: Not the CFP planner who says you have to plan for 35 or 40 years. Go find a good life insurer or generally the best longevity calculators that requires you to input a lot of real data, conditions, meds, family history, et cetera. Okay? So, longevity.

Al: Okay.

Joe: Some people have it, some people don’t.

Al: Yeah, Well, y- there are ways you can put in some of this information and get a better idea, but it’s, not gospel. It’s just-

Joe: You know what? I’m, at the age now, Al, and I could imagine your age.

Al: Yeah.

Joe: But, you know, you, kinda go through… I read this, like, LinkedIn post.

Al: Yeah.

Joe: And it was like, yeah, you know, you get the, the invites to weddings. Then you get the notices of babies.  Then you get, you know, notices of, you know, happy anniversary. Yeah. And now it’s like, oh, died. had a stroke.

Al: Well, you, got-

You, you get some people retiring, so that’s more common, but yeah. I’m, at our church, and I’m, probably on the younger side for our church, but yeah, there’s several funerals. It’s just part of the- It’s just part of life … part of what happens, yeah.

Andi: That’s part of the circle of life.

Joe: It is.

Al: Yes.

Joe: So yeah, you gotta check out your family history- Yep … your, what meds you’re on, what conditions. So there you go. some people have longevity, some people don’t. FYI, only 8% of men reach age 95. This guy’s, like, thinking morbid. He’s- He’s thinking like me, man … he’s- He probably just got a text. okay.

Al: Yeah, I don’t disagree with that.

Joe: I think Big Al’s gonna make it to 95.

Al: I’m shooting for it.

Joe: Who have obtained the age 65. When your CFP says you cannot plan for 11% investment rate of return, it would put you in the top 5%. Tell them to their face, geez, when they are planning for a 40-year retirement, when less than 5% of men obtain that age.

Andi: Why are you planning for a 40-year retirement?

Joe: Oh, why? Why? Why are you planning for a 40-year retirement when only 5% obtain that age? Well, how about the wife, the spouse?

Al: Yeah. There’s, some missing stuff here, but go, on.

Joe: Thanks, Randy. These pants.

Al: Yeah,

Joe: yeah, Last is expected portfolio return.

Al: Okay.

Joe: This guy’s in the business. JPM. Name anyone, I’m- I’m- guessing no one listening to this podcast right now knows what JPM is Andi, do you know what JPM is?

Andi: JP Morgan.

Joe: Okay.

Andi: I’ve worked for you for a couple years, Joe.

Joe: All right. But so, it’s like, well, who’s, gonna put JPM? Aaron doesn’t know. He’s still scratching his head. JPM did a study in 2024 in which they proved “… that your expected returns approach 10%, take as early as possible.” I don’t understand his language here. Let us-

Al: A- as, as your returns approach 10%, take as much-

Joe: Well,

Al: let us-

Joe: his expected portfolio returns. JPM did a study in 2024 in which they proved out that as your expected returns approach 10%, take as early as possible.

Al: The portfolio gains.

Joe: Portfolio gains from not using those funds because you took Social Security early, outweighing the gains from taking later. And before you scream at me, a lot of research has come out over the last few years that shows pretty convincingly that 100% equity portfolio is the best and most efficient in retirement. Go watch Ben Felix.

Andi: Do you know Ben Felix?

Joe: No. Never heard of Ben.

Andi: He’s a portfolio manager at PWL Capital in Canada, and he runs-

Joe: Okay.

Al: Oh, okay

Andi: … the Common Sense Investing YouTube channel, and co-hosts the Rational Reminder podcast. He’s best known lately for promoting research that argues that 100% equities beats target date glide paths.

Joe: Well, I don’t like target date blood baths either.

Andi: Blood baths? Is that what you said?

Joe: I think that’s what you said.

Joe: What did you say?

Andi: I said glide paths.

Joe: Oh, glide. Did you say glide? Glide. Yes. Oh, glide path. Yeah. I hate that word, too.

Al: I know you do. Yeah.

Joe: There are plenty of funds that have at or near 10% returns over the past 30 years. Go take a look at dimensional funds for examples. He says examples.

Al: Yes.

Joe: Or simply go take a look at the S&P 500, which, dividends reinvested, it has returned 10.448% over the last 30 years on an annualized basis at the time I posted this. That includes two of the three 40% downturns in the S&P in the last 100 years.

Al: Okay.

Joe: Okay. I don’t understand anything that he’s really trying to get across here. We talk about longevity, but he’s saying we’re not gonna live 40 years in retirement, so don’t plan for it. Just take a, a, a- go try to get life insurance. Yeah. Get a medical exam.

Andi: And screw your wife.

Joe: And then s- but you’ll come back-

Andi: Who cares?

Joe: Well- And then they’re gonna be like, “Okay, you’re not a preferred rate,” so then that’s a 40 year. So if I got, like, a rated D for uninsurable- then I’m gonna plan for a 10.

Al: Well, so l- first things first. He says, “Why do we plan for 35 or 40 years? No one’s gonna live that long.” and the truth is, if you’re 65 years old, you’re not planning for 40 years, Joe. That’s a bit excessive. I mean, if you retire 50 or 55, th- 40 years could be true.

Joe: Could be.

Al: Could be, right? But here’s the stats. If y- if you’re 65, current stats, males of 65 live to 83. That means half- Go before that and half go later than that. Who lives later? Well, it’s not really that complicated. It’s ones that take care of themselves better, right? They exercise, they eat better, they have friends, they keep busy with charity or whatever it may be. Those are the people that live longer. Anyway, so that’s male. Female, Joe-

Joe: There’s genetics too …

Al: could be, genetics is certainly a big part of it, yeah. Female, 65 years old, lives to 86, so that would be the average there. But here’s the most important thing. When you take husband and wife together, where, it, there’s a 50% chance that at least one of them will be living by age 92. That’s why you wanna plan to age, 95 at least, right? Because who wants to get to 92 or 87 and then not have any money?

Joe: Well, you’ll have Social Security. You’re not gonna go out there spending a lot of money going on those cruises, that you like to do at 95, are you?

Al: No, but you’re gonna spend probably a lot more on medical.

Joe: Well, Medicaid.

Al: Yeah. You can go on the-

Joe: Yeah

Al: … go on the state’s dime. They s- Well, yeah, I suppose. Not the best, but y- you can.

Joe: But the, yeah, I agree with the statement. Only 8%, because the stats- I- … that you just read off, you didn’t say 95. You said 92.

Al: Yeah, 90…

Joe: Yeah. And, I, agree that only 8% of men will make it to 95 given today’s numbers.

Al: I agree with that too.

Joe: But that doesn’t mean that healthcare advancements are gonna grow over the next 10, 20, 30 years- Yeah … where we’re gonna live a little bit longer, or maybe not. I don’t know. I think planning is planning. So yeah, everyone’s situation is very specific- I- … to what they wanna do.

Al: also, if-

Joe: We’re talking to the masses.

Al: I know. We’re, I mean, we’re t- we’re trying to make it relevant to everybody. Sure. Yeah. Some people are gonna live longer, some people not as long, Joe. I mean, that’s just the way it is. The, it turns out that married people tend to live longer than single. So anyway, there’s all these different factors.

Joe: Are you gonna go get married? Just so you have a little bit of longevity? What about 100% equity portfolio? Well, I think it depends on how much money that you’re taking from the portfolio. I agree that if you ran 100% equity portfolio and used a 10% rate of return, and you ran it through any financial planning software- Yeah it is gonna look phenomenal.

Al: Of course. Now, what if it’s the great re- recession or the Depression where, the market was down for year after year

Joe: But his statement’s flawed because he’s like, “All right. Well, yeah, take a look at dimensional funds or go simply take at the S&P 500, has returned 10.48% over the last 30 years.” It doesn’t grow 10.48 every single year. You’re up 50%, you’re down 30%, you’re up 7%, you’re down f- y- so you’re down 40% and you’re taking money from the portfolio, good luck on catching up.

Al: Yeah. And not only that, Joe, I mean, if you’re taking money out of the portfolio when it’s down 30, 40%, you’re gonna probably wanna get out of the market bec-  you can’t handle it. Exactly. And then, and now you’ve completely blown it ’cause you’re n- you’re not gonna get the recovery.

Joe: Yeah.

Al: If I’m running different scenarios, I’d much rather use a 10% rate of return ’cause that makes my scenario look that much better.

Joe: Sure. Yeah. I’m gonna be like, “Yeah, I’m gonna retire now.”

But I, think what we’re… Al and I are very conservative when we talk on this show just because, A, we don’t know your situation, we don’t know how much money you have, we don’t know what your goals are. So in general terms, it’s like, all right, if you wanna plan conservative, this is probably some good parameters, but of course you wanna get very specific to your situation to figure out what you wanna do. So it’s like, yeah, I’m tired of these videos. You know what? We’re tired of making them.

Al: Yet we keep doing it.

Joe: Yes, we do. All right.

Andi: People keep asking questions. Yeah. Or complaining. And those complaints need addressing.

Andi: Speaking of YMYW TV, this week’s episode will show you how to Escape 11 Tax Traps and Save in Retirement. Joe and Big Al walk you through some of the ways the IRS can take more than its share once you retire, including how your Social Security gets taxed, Medicare premium surprises, required minimum distributions, and the widow’s penalty. That doesn’t sound cookie cutter to me, but why not check it out for yourself and see what you think? The link to watch is in the description of this podcast episode. Plus, download the companion 2026 Tax Planning Guide for free. It’s loaded with this year’s brackets, contribution limits, and financial moves to make before year-end. And hey, if you’ve got a bone to pick like Jeffrey did, leave us a comment, and tell a friend to do the same. You might just hear Joe and Big Al take you on in a future episode. The links to watch and download are waiting for you in the episode description.

How Do I Turn My IRA Into a Monthly Paycheck? (Kevin, Denver)

Joe: All right, let’s go to Denver. We got Kevin hanging out in Denver. Yeah. “Hi, Andi. Before I ask my question, I wanna give you a virtual big hug.”

Andi: Well, thank you. Appreciate that, Kevin.

Joe: How’d that feel?

Andi: Loved it.

Joe: Okay, good.

Andi: I’m always for hugs.

Joe: All right. You’re in my thoughts and prayers.

Al: Nice.

Andi: Thank you.

Joe: “Hey, Joe Big Al in wonderful Miss Andi.” He’s got a crush.

Al: He kinda does.

Joe: “Here’s the most important stuff. Hasn’t changed. Still drinking barrel-aged imperial stouts.”

Al: Okay.

Joe: Oh my gosh. Wow, that’s- That just sounds-

Al: That’s very specific.

That’s a-

Joe: That just sound fully, no, filling.

Al: It does

Joe: It’s like I feel full-

Al: Just reading …

Joe: reading that, yes. “And big red wines.”

Al: Okay. ”

Joe: Now that dry January is over.” Oops, sorry. A little,

Al: Yeah, this was written in February.

Joe: Okay. Sounds good. All right. BLUF.

Andi: Bottom line up front.

Joe: Bottom line- Line up … up front.

Al: Oh, I like that.

He tells us what we’re gonna, he’s gonna ask.

Joe: “I would appreciate hearing your spitball on how to structure a retirement plan withdrawals.”

Al: Okay.

Joe: All right. “I’ve been writing to you for the past six years, and the time has come for me to wander off into the sunset. You’ve helped me formulate my investment plan, you taught me about bands for rebalancing, and thanks to your encouraging Roth conversions, I managed to move my entire wife’s IRA into a Roth at the bottom of the COVID dip.”

Al: Nice.

Joe: All right. “I really appreciate everything you’ve done for me, and although I’m hanging up the suits, I’ll continue to listen as I travel the country in my new travel trailer-

Al: Okay …

Joe: while the wifey keeps on a-working.”

Al: Oh, he’s going solo, I guess.

Joe: This guy’s got a little- … trailer. Okay. let’s, “I am going to forego the retirement spitball analysis as I pull the trigger and hopefully there’s no going back.

My question centers around processing of pulling money out of my retirement account. I’ve established a budget. I plan to withdraw $100,000 from my IRA this year, which is a 2.8% withdrawal rate at the age of 63. I have two-thirds of my money in pre-tax, one-third in Roth. There’s no brokerage account within the pre-tax.

I set up a bucket approach with the money market of 200,000, bonds to cover seven years of withdrawals, and the rest is in international and US stocks. The Roth account is 90% stock, 10% bonds, and I wasn’t planning on tapping that until the IRA’s gone or to manage my IRMAA income limits and the like. I see a couple of options for how to structure the withdrawals.

First, I would like to create a monthly paycheck of equal shares, thus dollar cost averaging the withdrawals over the year and rebalancing as needed. The second option is totally predicted on a rising market during which I would sell all investment gains every month until I hit that $100,000 mark. Thus, if the market were up for the first six months and I had fortunate enough to be able to pull the $100,000 of profits in that-” I’d be done for the year.

Ultimately, I see some hybrid version since the reality of an ever-growing market is not a reality. During periods when there aren’t gains to cover the withdrawals, the money would be pulled from the money market account. Thanks again for all you do and providing some insight into the mechanics of how to s- stop saving and start spending.”

Al: Cool. And then he has a follow-up. Well-

Andi: Well, the, the- I added his email from a year ago when he emailed us before he was, retired- Oh, yeah … so that we had his numbers. Okay. Because he did not in- include any numbers in the most recent email. So his previous email- Got it … is just there for context.

Joe: Oh,

Al: okay.

Joe: Okay. We don’t need his numbers.

Al: No, and I can… Yeah, and I actually looked at them, and his distribution rate’s about 3.4%. I’m good with that, so- He said

Joe: 2.8.

Al: Well, it’s the-

Joe: Has it grown?

Al: It’s, well, n- it’s two, it’s 2.8, Or let me think. Let me th- what, the heck was I doing?

Joe: But, okay, he’s looking to create the income.

Al: The, the two, the 2.8 is the $100,000 draw, not the 129 spend. Okay. So that’s the difference.

Joe: All right.

Al: But either way, it looks fine.

Joe: He needs to pull money from the portfolio. How does he do it? Yeah. So he’s got a couple of different methods that he’s thinking.

Al: Yeah, yeah.

Joe: He’s gonna go with the IRA first, and he’s got a bucket strategy of a couple hundred thousand dollars sitting in cash.

He’s got seven years worth of bonds. So he’s got $700,000 roughly in bonds- $200,000 in cash, so that’s eight, and the rest-

Al: Yeah …

Joe: is all for long term. So he’s got an eight-year bridge that the market could be poor- Yeah … and, he doesn’t have to touch equities. He can draw from the safe. Or does he do a combination of dollar cost averaging out of his overall portfolio on a monthly basis?

Or if the market goes up, he’s just gonna take a look on a month by month basis which ones are up, and that’s how he’s gonna create his income. Yeah. Pull it out. Once he hits that $100,000 cap, it could happen in a month. It could happen in month 12.

Al: Sure.

Joe: But he’d be set for the year.

Al: Yeah.

Joe: What do you think?

Al: I was gonna ask you what you think.

Joe: Well,

Al: I think either one’s fine. I think to me just pulling out of a rising market is, it seems like a lot of work. I think what I would do personally is have at least six months in, in safe money, bonds, cash, and which he has, as you just said, like about 700 grand in bonds.

He wants 100,000 a month. So that’s great. And then I would just keep ref- I would take the money out of that, and I would just keep refilling it as the market goes up, right?

Joe: Yeah, that’s exactly right.

Al: And, if, the market doesn’t go up for seven months, then you have to refill it with your, bond money or, with something else.

Joe: Y- yeah, you don’t wanna… Y- you still wanna look at this as an entire strategy of saying, “All right, well, I have 60% stocks, 40% bonds, and I’m going to be taking some distributions from the portfolio,” because you wanna manage the risk appropriately.

You wanna still have that 60/40 split or 70/30 or whatever it is because you’re shooting for a certain target rate of return.

And if you keep pulling out the winners and then just spending that versus maybe reinvesting in another stocks that have gone down to rebalance it to keep it in stocks, you might be losing out on return potentially.

Al: Agreed.

Joe: So if I keep 100, you know, $200,000 in cash, and then I got some bonds, maybe I take the interest from the bonds, and then I re- you know, take the coupons from the interest, and I put it in my cash.

And so I’m gonna replenish that cash as- Yeah … I’m pulling $25,000 a quarter from the overall cash.

He could say, “You know what? I don’t wanna reinvest my dividends. I would like the dividends to go into cash as well.” Yeah. Some people do that. That’s okay. That’s fair.

Al: Yep.

Joe: or if you wanna reinvest the dividends, it’s, gonna be a year-by-year strategy ’cause you have no idea what the markets are gonna do.

So, and I don’t know what rate of return that he’s trying to shoot for. Is it 6%? Is it 8%? Is it 4%? Or doesn’t he re- care about the growth of the portfolio, he just wants his $100,000 of income? Well, then you just take the lowest amount of risk possible and make it super simple.

Al: Yeah.

Joe: But most people wanna continue to grow the portfolio.

So if you’re, like, doing it month by month, I think that’s a lot of work.

Al: Me too.

Joe: And probably for not the, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

Al: Yeah.

Joe: I would c- continue to rebalance the equity component of the portfolio. You might wanna take some dividends and put it in your cash account. You might wanna take the coupons from the bonds and put it in your cash account to replenish.

But maybe you look at it quarterly or semiannually. You kinda see how things are going, depending on how often that he rebalances. It sounds like he rebalances- via bands, as we told him to.

Al: Yep. Yep.

Joe: and most of his money’s in Roth, in, in retirement accounts, so he doesn’t have a lot of brokerage.

But I would be thinking of taxes here, too.

Because he does have a third of it in Roth and a third of it in retirement accounts.

So if he wants to live off of $100,000 a year, but his wife is still working, so he’s pulling out 100. I don’t know what his wife makes. What tax bracket is he in? So you wanna use the Roth money to make sure that you’re not gonna go into a higher bracket as well.

So y- you don’t wanna blow through all of your retirement accounts and just keep your Roth growing unless you wanna use it strictly for a legacy play.

But I think Kevin wants to probably use it for his own income.

You’ve saved it, might as… You might as well use it, and it’s a great leverage to control your taxes long term.

Al: Well, and I think you, you bring up a good point. So $100,000 is what he wants, right? But maybe there’s a year where he wants to buy a car or go on a trip or-

Joe: Well, he’s going on a… He’s living in a van down by the river.

Al: Maybe he wants to upgrade to the Fairmont at Lake Louise.

Joe: Yeah, there you go.

Al: Which is expensive, from personal experience.

Joe: You got it. Got it.

Al: But that’s when, you take money out of the Roth, to keep yourself out of a higher tax bracket. Now, if you’re still in the same tax bracket, great. Just pull- Just keep depleting the retirement account. Y- but if it’s gonna bump you up into another tax bracket, then you may wanna consider taking some out of the Roth.

So that, y- yeah, and that’s something you do throughout your whole life. that’s the whole point of having this Roth. Now, Joe, as you said, for some people it’s a legacy play. They don’t wanna touch it. They want the kids to get that. I get it. That’s a great way to go. But if you’re doing it for yourself, you wanna manage it with your tax brackets to make sure you don’t go into a higher bracket.

Joe: Yeah, he’s talking IRMAA limits. He’s talking this. So there could be other strategies involved. Yeah. But- Yeah … now, I think your withdrawal strategy is right on, too. You know, you just kinda look at guardrails. The easiest way to do it is that you got a couple hundred thousand dollars sitting in cash, and start depleting the cash, and then you look at it quarterly, semi-annually of h- you know, how the portfolio’s doing.

Is it doing what you wanna do? How’s the market? If it’s a really rich market, maybe you take some, well, as you rebalance-

you know, then y- I mean, you can make these decisions as you go. But I wouldn’t do it monthly and say, “All right. Well, which one’s- Yeah … our month, and let me sell this or that.”

I would try to keep it on autopilot as much as you can- just because when markets get volatile when they’re spending money, that’s when people abandon the strategy.

Al: Correct.

Joe: And you have plenty of money in fixed income, in, in cash to, to weather any storm that you have.

So you wanna make sure that you keep your discipline investment strategy alive.

But if you’re looking at this monthly, I think you’re looking at it too much, and you might make some moves or-

Al: Yeah …

Joe: transactions that maybe you wouldn’t have if you were just kind of enjoying the travel.

Al: I would probably, if it were me, I’d look at it quarterly. Or maybe that’s too much. May- maybe twice a year is good enough.

Joe: How often do you look at your portfolio? I- Your giant ass portfolio.

Al: Hardly ever.

Joe: Yeah. I can’t tell you the last time I logged in.

Al: But you know, it’s, being managed by Pure Financial.

Joe: Oh, you got it.

Al: I got, I g- I’m all good.

Joe: You got it. You got it. well, was that a plug?

Al: it wasn’t intended to be, but I guess so.

I’m Retired Early Due to Illness and My Wife May be Laid Off. What About Health Insurance? (Tim & Jill, rural PA)

Joe: We got Tim “The Tool Man” Taylor. Do you ever watch that show?

Al: All the time. Home Improvement, love that show.

Joe: Tim Allen, right?

Al: Yep.

Andi: Yes.

Joe: And have you seen his new show?

Al: no. I’m aware he’s has one, but no, I haven’t seen it.

Joe: Isn’t it, like, he’s- … he’s a mechanic?

Al: I don- I couldn’t even tell you.

Andi: Shifting Gears.

Joe: See,

yeah,

there you go.

Andi: Which premiered in January of 2025.

Al: Okay.

Andi: Yeah. He’s a stubborn, widowed owner of a classic ca- classic car restoration shop whose life is upended when his estranged daughter and her teenage kids move back into his house.

Joe: Oh, that just sounds like a winner- … right there, for sure.

Al: I don’t know.

Joe: Do you ever like The Santa Clause?

Al: Yeah, I did like that.

Andi: I liked him in Galaxy Quest- I think the- … where he was the, the, you know-

Al: Oh, he was great

in that

Andi: … the alternative Shatner. I thought that was cool.

Al: Yeah. Well, he was Buzz Lightyear, too. He was good in that.

Andi: That as well.

Joe: Oh, he was.

Al: Yeah.

Joe: Man of multi-talents.

Al: I know, right? Just

Joe: like you, Big Al. “Hi, Andi, Joe, and Al. I’m, hoping for some guidance here and a spitball to ease some big worries.” All right. “I was forced into early retirement due to a illness, and I’m currently on Social Security Disability. Now my wife’s company is downsizing, and there’s a real chance her career could end earlier than planned.

Our biggest concern is health insurance. She currently carries our coverage. If she loses her job, I would move to Medicare, and she would need to find private insurance. No retiree benefits.” Okay. “We’d love your take on whether we’ll be okay if this happens. I found Your Money, Your Wealth when I was suddenly thrown into retirement and trying to learn everything that I could.

Your humor and plain English approach really clicked with me.” All right. “Neither of us has a college education, so we’ve done our best to educate ourselves along the way. Unfortunately, we learned about Roth savings a little bit too late. For a fun fact, my wife’s drink of choice is Miller Lite. I no long- longer drink due to my health, and we both drive Fords.”

Where’s Tim the tool man from? Does he-

Al: You know, it doesn’t, I don’t think it says He,

Andi: they say in the next sentence-

Al: Oh, yeah …

Andi: just keep going.

Joe: Oh, yeah. Oh, I got it. You were right. You were right. “I enjoy my, 2021 Ford F-150 and our 2015 Explorer. We live in rural Pennsylvania and have two adult children- Yeah

and are already launched and they have moved to the city. I don’t plan on going anywhere anytime soon, but I want to be sure my wife will be pla- financially secure no matter what. Here’s a little bit about us.” Okay, so Tim the tool man, he’s got Social Security at $2,600 a month. He’s got a pension of $3,300 a month, no COLA, 100% survivor.

That’s good.

Al: Yep.

Joe: Tim’s retirement savings, a million dollars in a pre-tax 401(k), 32% bond, 28% stock, 26% short-term foreign stock and other, and he’s got $21,000 in a Roth.

Al: Okay.

Joe: All right. Hell of a job there, Timmy.

Al: Yep.

Joe: Jill-

Andi: And he’s 65.

Joe: 65 years old.

Al: Yeah.

Joe: Jill, she’s 58, current salary is $70,000. She’s c- contributing 20,000 to the Roth, 20% to the Roth, I’m sorry, and a 5% match.

Work 401(k)is $1.3 million. Geez.

Al: Yeah. Very good.

Joe: International, okay, let’s see. Pre-tax portion is 1.2, Roth portion is 100, after-tax portion is 60. She’s got a Roth IRA of 10. pension at 65 will be $1400 a month, no COLA. Social Security estimates 62 will be 2000, 67 3000, and at 70 3600. Other assets they have is about 120,000 in T-bills, $45,000 in savings, and a $90,000 brokerage account.

They got a paid off home worth 750,000. They got a secondary home. It’s private. They don’t rent it out. 50% ownership, with a $300,000 market value with 150,000, or $130,000 loan, seven years left. 1.75% interest rate.

Al: Pretty good rate.

Joe: Yep. All in spending is about 100 or $11,000 a month, including roughly $20,000 a year in travel.

Since my early retirement, we’re focused on traveling while we’re still able. Thanks for all you do in making complex topics understandable. I’d love to hear your thoughts and hopefully our spitball. Well, dang, they’re doing quite well. The only- They are … spend, how old is he, 65 you

Al: said? Yeah, 65 and 58.

So if Jo, if she gets laid off right now-

they’re in good shape.

Joe: Well, so they spend $132,000 now.

Al: Yeah, and the c-

Joe: And then that’s gonna go up to, let’s call it 150,000, right?

Al: Yeah. but before we even go there, even with his fixed income, which he’s currently receiving, their shortfall is 62,000 against 2.7 million.

That’s a 2.3% distribution rate. That’s before all this other income that’s gonna come in from her pension and her Social Security. So yeah, it, I mean, i- if she does get laid off, the numbers look just fine.

Joe: You got 3200. He’s got, 32 and 25, so he’s got $60,000 coming in.

Al: Yeah, it’s about 70, but yeah.

Joe: what do you mean?

2, 5, oh, 6, 0? 2, 5, 6, 0, and then- 3260 … 3260.

Al: Times 12.

Joe: 12 times? Yeah, $70,000, like I said.

Al: Give or take.

Joe: All right, 70,000. Yeah, but- Minus 150 is 70…

Al: Where do you get 150? ‘

Joe: Cause she needs private health insurance.

Al: Oh, okay.

Joe: So the shortfall’s gonna be $80,000.

Al: All, all right. Okay.

Fair enough.

Joe: So $80,000 into 2.4?

Al: Yep, that’ll be-

Joe: Or 2.6?

It’ll

Al: be under 4%.

Joe: 2, 6, 3.

Al: Three even. Yep.

Joe: 3.08.

Al: Looks good.

Joe: At 65 and 58, he’s got-

maybe impaired life expectancy. Maybe.

Al: We don’t know.

Joe: So he doesn’t need it for 40 years.

That guy bitched at us for using 40. Maybe he’s got 20.

Al: But, you know, maybe she’s in great health. I like that his pension is 100% survivor.

Joe: Love that.

Al: Yeah, that’s amazing, and-

Joe: She’ll get a survivor benefit …

Al: Social Security disability, we haven’t really talked about that in a while. So that, that continues until full retirement age, and then it, same benefit just becomes your Social Security payment. So that, that continues through life

Joe: They could pause it and then he could wait till age 70

Al: He could if he wants a higher amount.

Joe: Well, then he, th- then Jill would get the survivor benefit.

But her benefit is gonna be 3,620… Well, her benefit will be higher- Hers is- … if she takes it at full retirement age.

Al: Yeah, that’s true. Yep. True.

Joe: so she makes 70. She’s gonna get laid off. They’re gonna be fine. She’s gonna have- Yep … private insurance.

yep. 153%. yeah. I love everything about this, but, the private insurance is just a part of the deal and- And, yeah, sorry about the health issue, but- Yeah … I think finances just, you can relieve some stress there, and I think you’re- yeah … looking good. For someone that just listens to stupid podcasts like ours, he’s done very, well for himself financially.

Al: Well, this is, this looks great. And, you know, 2.6 million, that, that’s a lot of money, and the fixed income is incredible. And so the s- the, spend compared to fixed income and, the assets look very good.

Joe: Yep. All right. Thanks, Tim.

Andi: You spend decades building your retirement nest egg, but then nobody hands you an instruction manual for taking the money out when you need it. Which account do you tap first? How much can you safely pull? How do you keep taxes from taking a bigger bite than they have to? Our Withdrawal Strategy Guide will walk you through all of that. It breaks down the different ways to set your withdrawal rate, shows how your odds of success shift depending on your mix of investments, and lays out a tax-smart order for pulling from your accounts so your money can last longer. Download your own copy of the Withdrawal Strategy Guide for free at the link in the episode description. When you request it you’ll see a drop down that asks “how did you hear about us?” Choose “podcast.” Then start turning your savings into a paycheck with a real plan behind it.

Roth Conversions on a $4M IRA at 68: Picking up Nickels in Front of a Steamroller? (Rocky & Adrian, Tucson, AZ)

Joe: Greetings from the land of prickly things.

Al: Tucson, huh?

Joe: Tucson, Arizona.

Al: Or Tucson.

Joe: I got a bunch of relatives in, in Tucson.

Al: Tucson.

Joe: I didn’t know Rocky and Adrian moved from Philly- … to Tucson. All right. “Your podcast helped me focus on my mental health-

Al: Wow …

Joe: while working on my physical health.”

Al: Okay.

Joe: Oh, look at you, Rock. “I’m 68 and retired for six months. My darling spouse is 69. I drive a 2006 Lexus 470.

She drives a 2016 BMW 320. We drive cars until they drop. I drink craft beers. Variety is the spice of life. She drinks iced tea.” Wonderful. Let’s see. “In a tax-deferred account,” then he just jumps in. He’s like- Yeah … “Craft beers,” and then boom. And then here’s the numbers. Here’s the- Let’s go … here’s the numbers.

Let’s go. All right. “A tax-deferred, $4 million, Roth 500, brokerage 400, mostly in one stock from options, and, with a fair amount of capital gain. She pulls Social Security at $24,000 a year. I pull Social Security at 70, which will be 52,000. We have a pension from an old job that’ll be $13,000. We owe $320,000 on our house with a golden handcuff of 2.65% interest.”

little golden handcuff. He doesn’t wanna pay it off- No, he doesn’t … because of that low interest rate.

Al: Yeah, that’s exactly right.

Joe: Never heard of an interest rate called a golden handcuff before, but I like it.

Al: Me neither, but that’s a good way to say it, I guess.

Joe: “Spend level is roughly $160,000 a year. Also have $27,000 in an HSA.”

He’s an ex-engineer with an MBA, so, hey, I’m a numbers guy. Look at you.

Andi: He says he’s put together a spreadsheet. I’m surprised there’s not 14.

Al: Oh, I’m sure there is. He just- … didn’t wanna brag.

Joe: So, “Have put together a spreadsheet projecting downturns from the IRA, trying to- Drawdowns.

Andi: Drawdowns …

Joe: drawdowns.

What did I say?

Al: Downturns.

Andi: Downturns.

Joe: Down- okay, I’m dyslexic. I, saw that backwards. Drawdowns, not downdraws. Yeah, downdraws. Downdraws. I do that all the time, man. trying to let the Roths grow at this point, trying to stay under that IRMAA caps as now we’re on Medicare. I did work until 68 and put max money into the Roth the last four years.

We have roughly a 50/50 split of equity. as a fan of Kitces in the sequence of returns- Okay … we used bullet shares to map out seven-year timeframes to support spending needs. Bullet shares. Never heard of bullet shares, but I know bullets were in that movie I watched, the- Yeah,

Al: yeah, I, I-

Joe: West… What was it called?

The Crucible of Tucson?

Andi: Frontier Cru- Crucible. Front- Frontier

Joe: Crucible.

Andi: Yeah, Frontier Crucible. Yeah. Yeah. Invesco Bulletshares are a family of defined maturity exchange traded funds.

Joe: Oh.

Al: Okay.

Joe: He’s trying to do that.

Andi: He is a- To create, act- created to act like individual bonds while offering the diversification and low cost of an ETF.

Joe: Yep. Okay. I know what he’s doing there.

Al: Okay.

Joe: He’s using the liability method.

Al: There you go.

Joe: Yeah, just like a pension would. He’s an MBA engineer.

Al: Yep.

Joe: And we’ll be, doing a rising allocation over time. Oh, he wants to do one of those. He’s gonna s- move his allocation more towards stock- Yeah … as he gets older.

Al: I think Kitces-

Andi: Which comes from Kitces, yes …

Al: he talks about that. So Wade Pfau, I think he talks about that.

Joe: Yep. Yeah, same with Ben Fritz.

Whatever his name was.

Andi: Felix.

Al: Oh, the other guy Ben Felix, yes.

Joe: Yeah, Ben Felix. Ben Felix. Yeah. so we should be good to go on income. However, we are heavily weighted in pre-tax.

We do have a few years to do Roth conversions, but would I merely be just picking up nickels in front of a steamroller? Also, would need to liquidate some stocks to pay the capital gains to have the ability to pay the tax on the conversion. Based on the three-year window, better to stay put, or should we do some conversions?

$4 million in a tax-deferred account

Al: I think I know your answer

Joe: That tells me you need to do conversions.

Al: Yes.

Joe: He’s an MBA engineer. You’re not gonna be picking up nickels, you’re gonna be picking up quarters.

Al: Well, if, I just look at, like, what’s his tax, bracket gonna be upon RMD? So just using today’s numbers.

160- 160 RMD- … plus pension … pension 89, interest dividends from taxable, call it 8, 260. standard deduction about 30, so that’s about 230,000. That’s in the 24% bracket. the 24% bracket starts at 211, so you can actually do conversions to the top of the 22. Maybe you go to the top of the 24, ’cause you’re gonna be in that anyway.

Maybe do, if, like, three years of conversions in the 24 to stay out of the 24 later.

Joe: Yeah.

Al: Maybe that’s what you do.

Joe: Because the 24 could easily go to 28.

Al: It could. It could, because-

Joe: It was

Al: It was. That’s what it was scheduled to do. So I think that’s what I would do. Yeah, definitely would do that.

Joe: Yeah. It, well, you’re gonna have to pay a little bit of tax to sell the stock, but you gotta get out of the conc- concentration risk anyway.

Al: That’s right. And you know what, Joe? Worse comes to worse, I think I might even pay the tax out of the deferred because- you know, d- depending upon whether you wanna save some of the taxable, depending upon what they’re pulling from to live off of. So,

Joe: $4 million is a big IRA.

Al: Especially when you’re 68 and 69.

Joe: 68, 69, you got plenty of fixed income, and they don’t- Yeah … spend a lot.

Given what they have as assets and fixed income. Well, yeah. So there’s not a huge demand on the portfolio. Not at all. So you’re only taking a little bit out of the portfolio. The portfolio’s gonna continue to grow, and again, it, might get out of control.

You know, as you age, those RMDs o- are only gonna get larger, and-

Al: When, you look at-

Joe: Then you got the widow or widower tax …

Al: gee, the spend at 160, fixed income’s 89, shortfall 71,000 on 4.9 million.

Joe: 5 million.

Al: That’s a 1.4% distribution. He needs

Joe: 2% a year.

Al: yeah.

Joe: And h- given his allocation, well, he’s got the bullet strategy.

Love the bullet strategy. But you know, he’s, he still has 50 per- have roughly 50%, equity to split, fixed income. Yep, yep. So 50% of, he’s got $2.5 million in equities.

Al: And it’s gonna increase.

Joe: Over the next 20 years- you can anticipate anywhere from a 7% to 10% rate of return on average.

He’s got his income s- you know, shortfall figured out with his bullet strategy over the next seven years.

yeah, you- So- Do the conversions and just take the risk in the Roth. Take more, I, don’t know if he’s got kids. it’d be a good legacy play. You don’t- It would … necessarily wanna give…

If he’s an ex-engineer MBA, and if he has children, what do you think his children are?

Al: I think they’re engineers.

Joe: I think they’re probably followed in the footsteps of Dad. I don’t think they’re mus- musicians.

Al: That’d be pretty unlikely.

Joe: I don’t think so. I think they probably make a good income.

Al: I think he showed them spreadsheets when they were four.

Joe: W- yes. Yeah. The chores-

Al: Yeah …

Joe: y- you know, spreadsheet.

Al: Yeah.

Joe: I mean, I guess that, that had to have been dialed in.

Al: Yeah,

Joe: that’s- You know, check the box …

Al: that’s something I would’ve done.

Joe: Yeah.

Al: Check,

Joe: Yeah. Family meetings. Conversions. It is enough.

Al: That’s right. Yep.

Joe: All right, you’re going on vacation.

Al: I am.

Joe: Well, have fun.

Al: I will.

Joe: Yeah.

Al: Going to three different countries in Europe. T- Croatia, Italy, and Norway of all things.

Joe: Yeah. Wow. My homeland.

Al: Yeah, You, the Vikings.

Joe: Yes. I am a Viking. Well, cool. all right. Well that’s it for us. We’ll see you next time, folks.

Thanks for listening. Thanks for your questions. Andi, great job as always. Aaron, wonderful. Show’s called Your Money, Your Wealth®?

Al: Yeah.

Outro: Next Week on the YMYW Podcast

Andi: Next week on YMYW, Fred and Wilma in Denver are 33 and 31 with 1.8 million in home and business debt. Should they focus on saving more, or paying it down? Jeremy in Summerville, South Carolina is 42 with a $97,000 pension. Should he go all-in on stocks for the next 20 years? And can part time work bridge the gap from from ages 56 to 62 for Saver and Spender in New York? Watch YMYW on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or Spotify, listen on your favorite podcast app, or just subscribe to the YMYW newsletter so it arrives in your inbox each week. You can find your links in the episode description.

Kevin, Tim and Jill, and Rocky and Adrian all built serious wealth on their own, but they still wrote in for a free look from a second set of eyes. You can get that too, and even more quickly and comprehensively, with a free assessment from Joe and Big Al’s team at Pure Financial Advisors. It’s a no-cost, no-obligation look at your entire financial life: your investments, your taxes, your income plan, your tolerance for risk, and your needs and goals in retirement. Th e Pure team will show you where you stand now, and where some tweaks might improve your retirement. Click the free assessment link in the episode description, or call 888-994-6257 to meet with the Pure team online via Zoom, or in person at one of our locations in San Diego, Seattle, Chicago, Denver, Salt Lake City, Nashville, Davis, Los Angeles, Irvine, Brea, or Phoenix. Book yours now.

Pure Financial Advisors is a registered investment advisor. This show does not intend to provide personalized investment advice through this podcast and does not represent that the securities or services discussed are suitable for any investor. As rules and regulations change, podcast content may become outdated. Investors are advised not to rely on any information contained in the podcast in the process of making a full and informed investment decision.

The Derails: Frontier Crucible, The Punisher, Disclosure Day, etc.

Joe: I watched probably one of the worst movies I’ve, had in years.

Al: Okay.

Joe: And I couldn’t stop watching it, it was so bad.

Al: You, it was so bad.

Joe: Yeah, so- It was a Western.

Al: Yep.

Joe: And I don’t know what was going on.

It felt like I was watching, like, a high school play.

Al: Was this a current Western or- Yeah … an old one?

Joe: No,

Al: current. Oh, okay.

Joe: Yeah. It was like, it was recommended to me from, I don’t know, either Netflix or-

Al: Got it. Because of everything else you watch.

Joe: Because of everything else I watch.

Al: Okay.

Joe: This, is a real- Every-

pity movie too. Oh. So yeah. And I, I, and I was glued. I ha- I watched, like, the whole thing, and it was- Yeah … so bad. Yeah, you could- They were, it was based in Tucson.

Al: Oh, okay.

Joe: But I don’t know. The, they didn’t have any, like, music.

Al: Yeah.

Joe: I didn’t notice that… You watch a normal mu- you know, they have background music- Yeah, all the time

and there’s always s- I-

Al: And you don’t even realize, but-

Joe: It sets the mood. Yeah. They didn’t have any of that. Take the background music out, and then watch people just r- That- … read their lines.

Al: That’d be rough.

Joe: It’s like, it felt like, is there a cue card or someone? it was- It was bad. Got it. Okay. but I, I- All I

Andi: notice you’re not telling us what it’s called.

That’s interesting.

Joe: I forgot. I forgot. I w- I was really excited when they-

Andi: Watched every second of it and have no idea what it was called.

Joe: You know-

Al: Well, it’s on Netflix, and it’s a new Western.

Joe: Yeah.

Andi: And it’s a- In Tucson.

Al: In Tucson.

Joe: Yes,

Al: If you Google that, you’ll probably figure it out.

Joe: Yeah. They had to be careful of the Apaches.

And- William H. Macy was in it.

Al: Okay. Now we’re getting somewhere.

Joe: Yep. And then, I forget his name off the top of my head, but he played, I believe, The Punisher, the first Punisher. What’s his name? I’m sure we can figure this out.

Andi: Was it called Train Dreams?

Joe: No, I don’t think it was called- No … Train Dreams.

Andi: Okay.

look it up. Interesting, because that was a 2025 historical drama frontier film acquired by Netflix, that includes William H. Macy, Arizona, et cetera. Okay. oh, I bet that-

Joe: But what, who, what other actor? What other actor?

Andi: Let’s see.

Hold on. Felicity Jones?

Joe: No.

Andi: Joel Edgerton? Ne-

Joe: wh- ne- mm- who’s, Who played The Punisher in the first Punisher m- movie?

Andi: let’s see.

Joe: Oh, no, it’s not Train Dreams.

Al: No, th- wasn’t that one.

Joe: Nah, it wasn’t that one. Dolph

Andi: Lundgren.

Joe: No, no, the second one, then. I don’t know Dolph Lundgren, but, It’s like that one

let’s see. What’s

Andi: his name? Punisher: War Zone?

Joe: No. 2008? N- he, might- Ray Stevenson? No. Wow, what the hell is his name?

Andi: Standalone reboot- … rather than a direct continuation of the 2004 movie. Okay, so the 2004 movie-

was Thomas Jane.

Joe: Yes, that’s his name, Thomas Jane.

Al: Oh, there

Joe: you go. He kind of wrote and, produced this thing.

Oh,

Al: okay.

Joe: And I like Thomas Jane, and I was like, “I’m gonna give this thing a shot.”

And, yeah.

Al: And you couldn’t keep your eyes

Joe: off It, it, was, tough. It was,

Andi: Frontier Crucible?

Joe: Oh, that’s probably it. That sounds awesome. It sounds like right up my alle- yes, there it is, Front- That’s-

Frontier Crucible. Yeah, highly recommend- Okay … not watching that one.

Al: Not watching.

Andi: It received mixed reviews from critics.

Al: Mixed reviews.

So, so somebody liked it.

Joe: yeah. Yeah. Look at that. During the Apache Wars-

Al: Yeah,

Joe: of the late 19th

Al: century. You said

Joe: Apache. Yeah. Yeah. Oh,

Andi: yep.

Joe: Yeah, this guy had to go to San Carlos to drop off some meds, and he, you know, he found some bad people along the way.

Al: Got it. Okay.

Andi: I wonder if it says in here anywhere that there’s no music in the film.

Joe: Yeah, there’s no D-rip. Oh, the music

Andi: was by Shawn Rowe.

Joe: But no, what they do, what they did in the movie is that they, would p- like play full songs, like old, like, like folk songs.

Al: Yeah.

Joe: And then the folk song would stop, and then it was, like, silent.

Yeah. And then they would start going into their dialogue.

Al: It just seemed weird, yeah.

Joe: Well, when I first put it on, I was like, “God, this kind of feels like a Quentin Tarantino movie.” Yeah. And I was like, “I’m gonna love this.” And then it just- You kept

Al: thinking it’d get better.

Joe: Yeah, because in the first, like, 30 seconds of the movie, this guy gets shot and, you know, hacked up, and I’m like- Well-

“Okay, this is gonna be good”

Al: … that’s your, kind of movie.

Joe: Okay. we’re on pace here. Oh, yeah.

Andi: All that from the word Tucson. Geez.

Joe: Yeah. Went on a tangent there. My apologies.

Joe: I also watched The Last House.

Al: The Last House, okay.

Joe: That was-

Al: Didn’t like that?

Joe: Oh my God. I fell asleep.

Al: I-

Joe: It was about aliens that were water people.

Al: What does that mean? They were made out of water?

Joe: they were made out of water, something like that. I didn’t actually see the aliens. Listen- But you couldn’t get out of your house.

Al: Got it

Joe: They locked the doors.

You couldn’t get out. Yeah. You couldn’t break through windows, you couldn’t open the garage.

Al: I-

Joe: So you had to stay in your house.

Al: Okay, that’s-

Joe: Could you imagine staying in… They stayed in their house for 5 years. Everyone else, their neighbors were dying.

Al: Yeah.

Joe: They were, like, holding up signs to communicate. Everyone was locked in their house because the water people made them stay in their house.

Al: Got it.

Andi: Sounds too close to COVID.

Al: Well, I think it does, it’s a little close. Yeah. I watched Discovery Day over the weekend.

Joe: Discovery Day?

Al: Yeah. Disclosure Day, sorry. Disclosure Day, Spielberg. That-

Joe: Disclosure Day?

Al: Yeah,

Joe: Was it aliens?

Al: Yeah.

Joe: Oh. Was it like an Independence Day?

Al: No, it was more like the, it was like taking a, like the, the concept that Rose- Roswell, Rosewall, whatever, where the first aliens were suppos- supposedly sighted.

Andi: Roswell. Roswell, New Mexico. Roswell. Yes.

Al: Thank you.

Andi: That’s where my mother was born, coincidentally.

Al: Oh. Yeah, you told us that. So anyway, it was, it’s like all that was real, right? And so now they want to, disclose to the public and i- there was the government that didn’t want to because they wanted to keep the technology for medical pur- for medical, military purposes. And then-

Joe: So do you believe that aliens touched the earth, e- ever?

Do I?

Al: Do

Joe: you think?

Al: I’m not a huge alien believer.

Joe: No? You don’t think

UFOs

are cruising around?

Al: I’m not, saying it’s im- not, I’m, s- I, well, now we’re gonna get metaphysical. I do think-

Joe: I don’t even know what that means …

Al: I do think there’s life elsewhere in the universe. I do believe that, but whether they, anyone’s touched down on Earth, I-

Joe: So it, it wasn’t, Disclosure Day didn’t feel real to you?

Al: Well, that was interesting, but it was so complicated. After the movie was over I had to ask ChatGPT, “What was this about?”

Joe: You had to study it, huh?

Al: Oh my God. And I, yeah, now I know what it’s about.

Joe: So then now you gotta rewatch it.

Al: I don’t think so. No? Okay. I didn’t-

Joe: Did you watch it in the theater?

Al: No. Is it- at home

Joe: oh, is

Al: it’s already out …

it’s already out. And on

Joe: whatever?

Al: Yeah, Got it. It got mixed reviews also.

Joe: Okay. Disclosure Day. Fine. I’ll check that out if you check out, my Frontier Cruise Line.

Al: There you go. Yeah. Maybe I’ll watch a few minutes of that to- Yeah … see.

Joe: it’s a, winner.

It’s a winner.

_______

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